On Zune Wireless Send

re: On Zune Wireless Send

Travis — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 04:16:29 GMT

Amazed and angry...I feel like I am being forced to work with city government or caught in some type of political bearaucracy when it comes to this DRM issue.

For the last few days I have been trying to figure out why some (alot) of my files were saying "this item has expired". Yes, I bought a Zune Pass for three months and it sounds like several artist are not allowing people like myself to download and play music to the Zune. Does the artist not get compensated when I purchase a Zune Pass? I wish I would have read the small print (wherever that is) when I bought the pass!

It is issues like this and the inability to purchase and listen to music on a ipod or vice-versa that make you feel like you wish the old Napster were still around. Come on get it together. It's BS and everyone knows it! -The artists, the consumers, the mp3 makers all have to realize this is a big problem that needs to be fixed. Wait the lawyer may not realize it (until he buys his daughter a Zune, when he has an ipod then buys her a zune pass for her college Spring Break just to find out she couldn't play any of her favorite songs).

Sorry to rant but, I am just amazed and angry!

re: On Zune Wireless Send

Pete — Wed, 24 Jan 2007 23:38:58 GMT

I disagree the 3 day/3 play limit "sucks" - I think it's fine for the intended use. They just need enable sharing for all Zune content, no matter if it's self rips or Marketplace.

re: On Zune Wireless Send

BJ Nemeth — Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:17:59 GMT

My whole point is how often a customer is frustrated by the experience. On an iPod, which doesn't promise wireless streaming (or deliver it), the customer is never frustrated by it.

However, on a Zune, if you try to beam wireless music (from Zune Marketplace), it will fail without warning 17-40% of the time. The actual number is irrelevant, unless it were in the 3-4% range or lower. Then it would be infrequent enough that users could disregard it.

Yes, this only affects music from the Zune Marketplace. But if you're a subscription model person, presumably most of your music would be from Zune Marketplace.

Another thing to consider is not what percentage of songs are beamed unsuccessfully, but what percentage of beamed songs are unsuccessful? (It's a subtle difference in wording, so I'll explain.)

The songs most likely to be transmitted from one person to another are the newest, most popular songs. Yes, everyone has this pie-in-the-sky vision that the tracks being traded are obscure classics and diamonds-in-the-rough that mainstream people haven't discovered yet. But the reality is that people are most likely to listen to (and share) the most popularly downloaded songs. That's why they're the most popular.

So the test done by sampling the top 50 downloaded songs at the Zune Marketplace was fair and revealing. The percentage of those songs that couldn't be wirelessly shared was extremely high. If every third time I try to use a feature, it fails, how am I going to feel about that product?

And to the people who still argue the fact that "With an iPod, you can't share anything!" -- Apple is too smart to release a feature that would fail a third of the time, much less build their product around it.

The most painful part of all of this is the fact that even when the feature *succeeds,* it still sucks, because of the 3-by-3 restrictions.

re: On Zune Wireless Send

tim — Wed, 24 Jan 2007 16:56:28 GMT

I don't care about stats either.

Again, I care about the fact that Microsoft is saying:

Buy the stuff and then figure out what rights you have later for yourself because both us and the studios want to claim we support a feature that we don't really support 40%-80% of the time.

re: On Zune Wireless Send

To Tim — Wed, 24 Jan 2007 07:55:03 GMT

Regarding that link: What are you talking about? That article is generic and only has examples what can be done with Janus DRM. There is nothing to update. Read it next time.

tim, do you even own a Zune? Or do you just like complaining? FROM DAY ONE THEY SAID SOME MARKETPLACE TRACKS COULDN'T BE BEAMED. I'm not shocked. I just did a test and I was able to beam 83 out of 100 tracks I picked at random from my Marketplace downloads. Does this mean "83% of Marketplace is beamable?" No, that just means I was able to beam 83 tracks out of a 100.

Stop with the pointless stats, please.

re: On Zune Wireless Send

s ballmer — Wed, 24 Jan 2007 06:59:12 GMT

I think we're getting off track. What I'd like to know:

a) the Zune is still brown?

b) it still squirts?

re: On Zune Wireless Send

tim — Wed, 24 Jan 2007 05:58:56 GMT

To Tim, if that's true then the terms have changed and Microsoft needs to learn to update its website:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/928217

Why do I care about subscriptions?

I care that Microsoft is saying:

Buy the stuff and then figure out what rights you have later for yourself because both us and the studios want to claim we support a feature that we don't really support 40% of the time.

re: On Zune Wireless Send

Alex — Wed, 24 Jan 2007 05:58:40 GMT

Cesar, don't spin stuff on behalf the team. When you publish gloss and press releases it destroys your credibility.

Shawn Oster's top comment in this thread is very pointed, and should be addressed. Why do this handwaving about partners and deals and things, and not simply say:

"Ya, you can't beam some songs available in the marketplace. We did not advertise this fact, some people may feel this is new information but it is printed clearly in here, here, and here.

Obviously it is not a technical limitation of the device, I made that comment without thinking.

I'm not personally excited about any limitations on the Zune but there are a lot of companies involved and interests at stake. We want our customers to be held first. We hope to have changes that will please everyone out in the near future."

Don't spin Cesar, you're no good at it.

re: On Zune Wireless Send

Bob — Wed, 24 Jan 2007 02:30:22 GMT

tim

Thanks for the update.

I took "You shall be able to store Products from up to five different Accounts on certain devices, such as an iPod, at a time." from the Apple TOS to be a limit on device transfers. As far as I can tell only Real limits transfers to devices (3) of all WMA stores, but they did use to work with an ipod. I have an older device from 2003 that can play WMA DRM9 but not subscription service. I have never experienced any problems on usability on several different stores. Most of mine are CD MP3 rips.

I still think the best solution is no DRM but the ultimate factor after all is satisfying the RIAA not Apple or Microsoft.

re: On Zune Wireless Send

To Tim — Wed, 24 Jan 2007 00:29:07 GMT

tim, you are wrong. Zune Marketplace *purchased* tracks can go to an unlimited number of Zunes. This is on parity with iTunes & iPod. Get your facts straight.

Subscription content is a different game entirely, and since Apple doesn't offer it... it can't be compared.

re: On Zune Wireless Send

tim — Tue, 23 Jan 2007 23:23:07 GMT

Bob, you are wrong. Get your facts straight.

The number of burns did go down from 10 to 7.

Authorized computers went up from 3 to 5, not down from 7, at the same time.

iTunes can be transfered to unlimited iPods. Most WMA stores do not support this. In fact, Zune only allows syncing to 2 Zune 5 times per month.

The comparison is apt no matter what you want to claim. Apple's terms are clear and set (yes, they changed ONCE in 4+ years.) They are known prior to purchase and consistent. In the case when it's inconsistent, whether it's needing to buy a track as part of an album or if a track is unpurchasable, this is clear when attempting to buy it.

The Zune Marketplace has a problem in that the terms are inconsistent and not known. You are not warned before or after purchase. You only find out whether or not it works well after the fact.

Not providing that notification is a problem. Complaining about Apple's terms or claiming that it doesn't belong in the conversation does not eliminate that problem.

In fact, this post exacerbates the problem: Microsoft and the studios are both saying: "No, it's not true, we support the feature, but we sometimes don't support the feature, but don't claim we don't support the feature, we support the feature."

No, they clearly do not. And they clearly have a problem.

re: On Zune Wireless Send

Bob — Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:24:55 GMT

Itunes can be used on 5 computers - also when released it was 7 it went down not up. With DRM they can change the terms of use and when re-authorizing your license it gets the latest terms no matter when you downloaded.

Burning CDs - number is 7 identical playlists not 10.

Notwithstanding the "Apple DRM is transparent" crap you read the terms of use you describe covers virtually all online music services. Number of computers authorized or cds burned is usually the only variable. I don't get the up to 5 accounts may be used on 1 ipod limit of itunes, most WMA drm is unlimited transfers to unlimited devices. Or the no reverse sync built into itunes. The only transparent (non-bump) DRM is no DRM.

I do not understand what an ipod/itunes DRM discussion has to do with a feature the ipod/itunes combo doe not offer.

re: On Zune Wireless Send

Kano — Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:59:11 GMT

Hey BJ, Great posts!!

They just don't get it. It comes down to user experience. Customer frustration will kill the product immediately. I'm very sure the readers of these forums are quite savvy on the computer, but the average "ipod" user the Zune is targeting will just give up.

Remember, it's not what it can do, but how well it does it.

re: On Zune Wireless Send

Daveworld — Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:18:04 GMT

"Hollywood reporter asks Matt Jubilier about Zune Marketplace limitations"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TPJ7GQOuzk

re: On Zune Wireless Send

sportsunit — Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:50:13 GMT

I can't stand the "you know what" kissing in the comments. 100% of the songs should be sharable. 100% of the illegal songs are. Why give the paying customers a harder time? It's just not right. This old line of we're working on it is wearing thin. In fact, they've been working on making my player not skip for about 2 months now to no avail. We see how that's going...