Jun 27, 2008
by Matthew Akers at 3:32 PM

In helping folks out in the forums, I find that a lot of people don't have a full grasp of how our sync model works and why content is automatically added (or deleted) from their devices. I also find that users tend to get frustrated due to the fact that there is automatic update of content on their device, but they don't know how or why; or even further, how to control it. In today's topic, I want to enlighten you to the world of sync groups, how they work, how they govern the content on your device, and how you can use them to your advantage and ultimately have a better sync experience.

Sync groups, a kinda-sorta-technical explanation...

A sync group in Zune software is a set of rules that governs / defines a set of media that will be sync'd to a Zune device. You can use sync groups to combine different combinations of music, video, pictures, podcasts & friends in your collection for eventual syncing to your Zune device. There are two different ways to create a Sync group in Zune software, (1) drag and drop a container or containers to the device icon (2) Manually create a sync group and specify the rules for media to be included using the Sync Group editor.

Once a sync group is created it will automatically add / remove content from itself when the player is active. This is achieved by applying the rules of the sync group against the media contained within the user's collection; basically the rules contained within the sync group are based upon various metadata contained within each media file that is in the users collection.

Ok, so what does that mean?

First of all, sync groups are only created when you are in "let me choose" sync mode for a particular content type. So, if you have music set in "let me choose" sync mode, anytime you drag and drop (or right-click and choose "sync with <yourzunename>") any genre, artist, album, song, or playlist (videos, pics, friends, and podcasts, too) to your device, a sync group is created to remember what you sync'd to your device so it stays on the device. You can also create complex sync groups using the sync group editor. It's kind of like autoplaylists specifically made for syncing content to your device. I'll give an example of that later.

With simple sync groups, if I drag and drop the artist Radiohead to my device, a sync group will be created for Radiohead. Once this group is created (see below for example), the software basically says "ok great, anytime my user adds more Radiohead tracks to the collection, I'll put them on their device automatically for them." Accordingly, anytime I add more of Radiohead's music to my library, it will automatically be sync'd to my device. Conversely, if you delete the Radiohead sync group, the content will be removed from your device. Further, if you delete some or all of the Radiohead songs on your computer, they will be deleted from the device. This is a pain point for some users as some folks want to have content that is not on their computer still remain on their device. We have definitely heard this complaint, and while I can't give away the road map, all I can say is that we are listening. At least now you understand why content would be deleted from your device if you delete from your computer; it's all about the sync group...

That's great, but what if I don't want sync groups?

Well, then you are just silly. Kidding of course, but seriously, you don't have to go by the sync group model if you don't want. If you have a larger device (or a smaller collection) then "sync all" mode may be best for you. Sync all mode does just what it says, it syncs all of the content in your collection for that content type. So, if you select sync all mode for pictures, it will sync all of the pictures in your collection to your device. Similar to sync groups though, it will automatically add content to your device as it is added to your collection, and will delete content from your device if it is deleted from your collection.

What if I don't want you to automatically add and delete content from my device?

Now that's just crazy talk! Kidding again, and we realize there are some of you that really want full control of the content that is added and removed from your device. To achieve this, you can connect your device in "guest mode" which will not create any sync groups when you sync content to your device, and hence it won't add or delete content automatically. To do this, disconnect your device. Then go to Settings > Device > Sync Options. Then click the "forget this device" button. Then reconnect your device and select the option to connect as a guest. Now you can sync content to your device, delete it from your machine, and it won't be removed from your device.

Advanced sync group action...

A feature that we added in the 2.5 release is the ability to create complex sync groups based on specific criteria that you choose. These are really like autoplaylists for sync'ing specific content your device. You can create complex sync groups from music, video, and pictures in your collection, and then filter the groups using a multitude of filters. Just like simple sync groups, as content is added to your collection that fits the criteria of the sync group, it is automatically added to your device. To create a complex sync group, navigate to Setttings > Device > Sync Groups, then click the "new group" button. A dialog will launch where you can name your sync group, choose from the source (music, video, or pics), and then filter the group to your liking. I'll outline one of my favorite sync groups below.

Complex sync group example: Favorite TV series...

Here's my scenario: I am a huge fan of "The Office." Needless to say I was stoked when we got the deal with NBC and started offering episodes of The Office for purchase in the Zune Marketplace. I'm continuously buying episodes, so I wanted a way for them to sync automatically. Here's how I do it: I purchase an episode of The Office from Marketplace, then I navigate to Settings > Device > Sync Groups, and click "New Group". I name it "The Office" and set my Video collection as the source. I then choose "The Office" from the TV series dropdown menu, and then click OK. Now the group is created, and the episode I purchased is automatically added to the group and sync'd to my device. Now every time I purchase a new episode of The Office it is automatically sync'd to my device. (Tip: You can even get more creative by using the "Year" filter to create separate sync groups for each season of the TV series).

I encourage you to experiment with the sync group editor and see what cool groups you can come up with. If you do, I think you'll find that you have much more control over the content that syncs to your device, and in turn, a better sync experience. Feel free to add some comments to this post with your favorite sync groups to share with other users. It's fun to see what people come up with, and I might even add a few more of my faves in there for you as well. :) Enjoy!

(for full versions of the example screenshots (and another favorite sync group of mine) click here)

29 Comments
Comments

Sync Groups is great and THANK YOU for implementing it.

There is a big however, however...

I have a 4 gig zune with 50 gigs of music, I like to keep only my most recently played music on my zune but there is no option for this. The nearest thing is "play count" but this is a completely different kettle of fish.

With Windows media player I am able to say "I want a 4 gig playlist of my most recently played music" - not so in zune:(

Please can you guys add this feature. It's one of the many things that could make the zune go from great to absoultely fantastic!

Thanks

Tim

This certainly lifted the fog

I have four playlists on my Zune - two are static playlists, and the other is a autoplaylist. These are synched to my Zune. The autoplaylists are limited to 100 songs each. However, every time I hook up my Zune, I get hundreds of songs removed and added back to my Zune. I have about 20 GB on my Zune right now - way more than the total amount of these playlists. What are some reasons this would be happening?

The two autoplaylists are set up like this: 1 is songs that I haven't played more than 10 times, and are rated positive or unrated, the other is songs that I have played more than 50 times, and are rated positively.

This website is horribly coded, the scrolling performance simply sucks....

In fact the whole syncing functionality within the zune software simply sucks.

Implement an easy drag and drop from collection to zune and just keep the data where I put it.

There is no need for any automatic deletion or addition of data for most.

PS:

You don't seriously advise to use the connect as a guest feature, do you?

I still don't like Sync Groups...very inefficient. We deserve full control, without having to go into Guest Mode. Plus, how is it that a sync "group" is made when even just one song is synced?...plus "group" doesn't really make sense when it's just one song. And when you sync let's say 20 new individual songs...you end up with 20 new "sync groups"...in the end, you'll have thousands of sync groups making everything all confusing for people that just want to connect and control what is on their Zune. I might deal with the headaches from this, but people who decide to test it out and buy it instead of an iPod can be completely turned off by this and not want to bother to understand it by coming to the ZuneInsider blog before returning it to the store. Just offer a "Make Sync Groups" option with an on/off button...

Well, i dont know if you are going to add this feature but, you should be able to turn off sync groups. it is confusing, it screws my device collection up and i really dont want to babysit a bunch of "scheduled tasks" to put what i want on to my device. i love zune, i have a 30GB and wouldnt trade it for anything (best sound quality ive ever heard!). however, i feel this software is making it a "advanced user" device.

Thanks,

       -Zune fan

when are you guys gonna fix the problem where a multiple CD album plays track 1 from CD1 and track 1 from CD2 side by side instead of in order?  :(

I love sync groups, makes it *much* easier not to have to remember to manually add music onto my device when I get a new album from a favorite band.  The other day I picked up a new Necromantik CD and like magic it was auto-sync'd.

I also love that it deletes music off my Zune when I delete it from my computer, if I'm deleting it from my PC then I really don't want to have to go and babysit it on the device as well.  

Sync groups have helped remove the mindnumbing administration of my Zune.

Is Zune Insider censoring comments now?  I made a negative comment three days ago detailing the issues I was having right then with sync groups, and it hasn't shown up.  Instead of typing all that again, I'll just say that I agree with a few others here.  Sync groups need to be able to be turned off.  If people don't want to babysit their device, then they can turn everything to autosync.  But when I have all the different types of media set to "let me choose" and the ridiculous software still deletes and adds things without me telling it to, it is really frustrating.  I love my Zune, but I completely dread having to plug it in to my computer.

Honestly, I don't see where I violated the rules, but whatever.

Add another user to the 'add an on/off switch'.  I understand the idea of the sync group, but just as many others have stated, I can handle adding and removing content from my zune just fine without any help from the software.  I'll say it again, the software is the worst part about the zune experience.

I have finally found the time to research this problem and am glad to see that others are complaining about it (but not really because it would be great if the Zune did what we wanted :). I thought I was the only one who was getting annoyed about it. So I'm going to read all this forum stuff (that I copied to a text document)and when I get a clear head, I'm going to see what can be done. I like the product, but the sync thing makes me feel very dissatisfied. I hope MS is reading. Again, I should have bought an Apple.

Thanks for taking the time to explain sync groups and how they function. The sync group function is very handy for those of us that use it but there's obviously a fair number of that don't and just want manual sync (or an option to not use sync groups). Please consider it for a future update. I personally use guest mode since i sometimes remove content from my PC but want to keep on the device, but I love some of the functions of being logged in to my tag (such as song ratings getting transferred to my collection among others).

Matt, I have a Zune80 that I have set to sync my entire music collection. Oddly though, there are several artists that only have a small number of their songs that have actually synced. I can't drag the tracks to my Zune Icon or right-click and Sync them (as I could when the Zune was manually managed). Creating a sync group of just the artist, for example, doesn't work either. Do you have any suggestions? Please e-mail me at Adam [at] ZuneThoughts.com if you have ay suggestions. Thanks in advance.

I just bought a new 8 gig zune to use for working out.  I already have a 30 gig zune.  I have the Zune pass.  When loading music to my new Zune, the software omitted certain albums that were synched with my 30g zune.  I understand the protected file issue, but if an album loads on one Zune, why would it not load on the other?  I have already verified that I only have two players profiled since there is a limit of rights usage on the Zunepass.  Any ideas?

Hey guys,

Reading you loud and clear on the "manual sync" option. :)

If you are having problems that you need help with, please come visit me in the sync forum. I would be glad to help you out. Zune Insider really isn't the best place for support, but I want to help you if possible. Drop me a PM or post a thread here: http://forums.zune.net/34/ShowForum.aspx

Thanks for reading! Some new tips/tricks coming soon...

Is there a way to redefine what the Zune software views as your collection?  If there was (is?), that would perhaps be an alternative to using sync groups to get music on your Zune...i.e., you could put whatever you want on your PC, but be selective in what you copy to one particular folder.  If you could then tag that one folder as your collection, you could simply "sync all" with that one folder, and you'd have what you want in your Zune.  Is there a way to do that?

Hi, I also think that an option for turning sync group on an off is a good idea. It might be useful, besides I like using it.

I am starting to HATE my ZUNE!!!!

The software interface is about the worst I've encountered.

At the moment I'm stuck with this one, so my biggest problem is that i can't seem to drag certain tracks to the Zune. Some go, some don't.

I dont' get it.

WHY?

I have the 80 GB zune...

i don't really want to dedicate 80GBs of space on my computer to music and movies and stuff, that's kind of what the zune is for...

so, the automatic delete is a terrible idea.

I like the automatic addition, but even that doesnt work all the time...

The instructions are pretty complicated. Also, too wordy.

Do I need a CS (Computer Science) degree in order to understand how all of the features work on the Zune?

I feel like I need a 500 page manual to understand how to use a Zune.

Is it too hard for Microsoft to make things simple?

I too am very frustrated with the PC interface with my zune.  Why can't Microsoft make a better interface.  This is almost as bad as the old DOS days!   One should be able to drop and drag files.  Ideally one should be able to creat folder on the PC then have the zune emmulate that arrangement instead of haveing to re-create them.

This may not strictly apply to sync groups, in which case you'll have to forgive me, as I just got my Zune 80GB and stumbled across this forum.

I have about 30GB worth of music stashed on my hard drive, in two folders.  I've told the Zune about them, and it's been churning away synchronizing everything just fine.

However, those two folders of music are also monitored by Windows Live FolderShare, which keeps them synched up among 4 PCs.  It appears that the ENTIRE 30gigs is being updated and transferred among all the PCs.  This has been going on for about two days now.  Also, if FolderShare is not running, the Zune software will sit still, showing that the device is 100% updated.  As soon as I fire up FolderShare and it starts transferring files (outbound) from the PC to which the Zune is connected, the Zune software starts saying it's synching, and displays random percentages from 20 to 100%.

The question is:  is this normal behavior?  Will all of those songs get scanned and updated (and therefore re-transferred) every time I fire up the Zune and/or plug in the Zune?  Or is this just taking an exceptionally long time before it finally settles down?

The reason for concern, of course, is that pretty soon I'll get a nasty letter from my ISP telling me to knock it off.

Thanks,

SKJ

This is so frustrating just let me manually click and drag, like the ipod, I love my zune but why cant you guys just have the same software as apple? What's so hard, fix this problem and sales go up, simple. Anyway I'm selling my Zune80 gig, not because it's a bad product, its the best mp3 I ever had but the software is ridiculous. Im getting an ipod touch to my dismay.

One of the reason's I got a Zune was because it wasn't an ipod, I've heard too many stories of ipods breaking and I'm not a huge fan of itunes. The Zune has been a great product, great sound, awesome features, but the Zune software has always lacked for me.. and this sync groups thing is too much. we should have the right to add what we want and delete what we want. I almost hope my current zune breaks so I have an excuse to either get an ipod, or look for a lesser known name mp3.

I have a Zune 30 that I love...when it works. I simply cannot get it to sync. I have done soft/hard resets and all that has happened so far it 1GB of music has synced. It keeps timing out. HELP!!!  Please contact me at triciaw72@yahoo.com. BTW, i have been trying for weeks and smarter people than I have not been able to figure it out. I'm desperate.

I love the Zune, I love the flash memory.  The Software makes me so damn mad I want to go buy Ipod's, LOTS OF THEM.

1. The shuffle works like crap

2. It can't display songs by artist and not album.  They say it does, but it doesn't

3. Sync groups are completely worthless and a huge waste of my time. My playlist have been completely F'd ever since.

5. No equalizer

6. No crossfade

the list goes on and on....this device will never EVER put a dent in Ipod sales with this F'd up Zune software.

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