im still waiting till i can sign in and use all of the new features. download some aqua teen hunger force and heroes. as well as use the new card features. cesar so far im loving the update. now about those games...... haha

Well if I the Zune software (yes 2.5 installed) would login I might be able to check it out.

I just went to update. It says that I am up to date (with version 2.3).

Any ideas?

seems like I haven't posted here in a while..

should it be updating automatically? Even after going to Settings -> Device Update it still says 2.3

Am I just being impatient? :P

Why must i be stuck at work with no way to experience these amazing features? I'm off at 11, so hopefully all the final bugs mentioned above will be worked out so i can get me some episodes of The Office ASAP!!!

woohoo i signed in!

Well I'm now totally locked out of Zune Market...I only used it to download podcasts and now I'm locked out with a blunt message telling me that it's not available in my region...Podcasts!!!  I tried to give microsoft a go....and now this will be in the bin and time to purchase an ipod if it's not fixed.  really disgusted.

Sorry...I'm from the UK too...forgot to mention that part!!

great update! love the new features, love the gapless playback! tv! f*** IPOD!!!

Hey, I have been reading your blog since yu opened and have never felt the need to post anything but I hav to say, Great Job! I love my Zune and have always been very frustrated with the softwar, now I can truly say that I love the entire Zune experience from start to finish.

This update rocks.

I sent u a friend request :)

Sounds cool. Can someone confirm Mr T's comment that podcasts cannot be downloaded now outside the US?

Surely not!

- from Australia

Man, the update is gorgeous!

the 'find album info' is working amazing, and the auto playlist just fantastic..

i liked everything.. and the graphics are gorgeous too..

i just want to know how i build a auto playlist by mood.. can someone help me?

and if u guys want to add me be my guest.. mine is TonyKalel

thanks for everything and keeping giving us the updates.. zune is one of the best things in my life i just love it.!!!

To get the update, I had to download it from the site. The software from 2.3 didnt seem to detect it yet, maybe because I got it really earily in the morning.

Just helpin the impatient ones lol.

if you download your podcasts from marketplace then you are going to struggle outside the US, as it would seem that marketplace doesn't appear on the Zune software. If you get your podcasts elsewhere, it shouldn't be a problem....I hope

East Asian Language finally supported in this update?

Your currently selected podcasts will still download...but you can't go on the Marketplace to add new ones :(

Other than that slight hiccup, I love this new update. Good job!

Just found out that the change regional settings in XP still works...got marketplace again

The new Zune gapless playback feature works fine for Marketplace & Zune Pass content, as well as my normal WMA content.  Thanks.  However, I'm a little disappointed it doesn't seem to play any of my LAME MP3 encoded files gaplessly like iPod can.  (The LAME MP3 header has the information to allow "real" gapless playback without guessing: encoder delay & zero padding.)

I use LAME MP3 encoding for all personal MP3 rips.  Amazon, EMusic & Walmart, for example, sells LAME encoded MP3.

I'll have to experiment more later...

updated

love the new features autoplaylist, gapless playback,taggin for videos(finally!!)

the desktop interface feels snappier too...

cant wait for the games update!!

www.zune.ca is live! Just set up my canadian account! SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET

I'm stucking at

preparing your computer...

it's been 99% for like 2 hours .......

oh my..

Great update Cesar! What do you think about working on having the Zune software have a toolbar on the taskbar like Windows Media Player or Itunes? I think that would be a great next step. Keep up the good work.

Still no Asian support... how difficult can it be to include this?

I will add that I love the gapless playback, but I also wish we had the ability on the Zune itself to have the concept of a Now Playing list which I could add to, without going through the hassle of building a quick list first.

Is the play count functionality working yet?

Zunecard hasn't been updated since this morning. "My recent plays" hasn't been updated either.  I have the v2.5 of the firmware and software.  Also "top listeners" no longer shows the count next to the username?  Other than that this rocks!  Thanks.

If I have purchased the TV show on my 360 already, can I now transfer it to my computer (to stream to all 360s) and my Zune?

Do you want to have a Belgian friend?

Awesome, glad there is finally an update. I was just curious as to what exactly was updated. Other than the gapless playback? not sure what this is in regards to. Could someone post a run down of what the fixes/additions were?? Thanks :)

Great Update!  Thanks MS!  Lovin' it.  Cesar:  You might want to tell readers 'how' to download since it's not automatic and requires a couple clicks.  

BTW - I'm not catching any of the gapless love.  Do I have to choose an option I have yet to discover?

ACE, gapless transitions seem to work perfectly for WMA.  But it doesn't work for my MP3 VBR (LAME 3.97) encodes, that I ripped myself using Exact Audio Copy.  Not sure what is going on.  The 2.5 desktop software and the Zune 80 itself both don't play these MP3s gaplessly; there is still a small gap between tracks.

Everything is great, but why are we locked out of the marketplace and all the social features outside the US ? Please let everyone in !

STILL NO ASIAN TEXT SUPPORT?

I can't believe this. I'm selling my Zune. I've waited to patiently for this "feature" (which should've been a basic requirement) for over a year.

ACE:

MP3s are inherently bad for gapless given the way they add empty space to achieve a fixed block size (does that make sense?)

Anyway, on Wikipedia, there's a great explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gapless_playback

Quotey: "The popular MP3 standard, for example, defines no way to record the amount of delay or padding for later removal"

@Jason Hanford-Smith

How does the iPod provided gapless support to MP3 files? Zune should have the same capability.

Jaxim:

Yeah, you're right... they must do some sort of pre-caching of the next track and start it on silence of the current track... I'm sure the computing power is there.

Selfishly, I'm happy with WMA gapless as I rip or download all my music is in WMA expect some old MP3s I had downloaded some years ago.

Jason Hanford-Smith,

LAME MP3 files *do* have padding and delay information in the header to allow "true" gapless playback.  iTunes & iPod will use this information if available to offer perfect gapless playback.

iTunes & iPod also has other proprietary logic that allows gapless playback on most other MP3 files, even if not ripped by iTunes itself.

update is awesome. Now that my Z30 broke, I think it is time for me to upgrade to the Z80.

few things I liked:

-gapless playback, just to be save, I had been ripping my cds in gapless wma, glad to see this paid off.

-social integration, I have bad taste in music, I need help, this is why I have friends.

-everything feels faster, no lag, looks better too.

-tv shows. nuff said.

-can add to cart! how many of us have sent song recommendations to ourselves just to keep track of songs we wanted to buy later?

this update totally effed my zune 30 AGAIN!!! every freaking update!! i feel bad for zune cs cuz im about to do some hardcore nagging until they fix my zune for good

Alright, am I missing something? I don't see an option for gapless. Is it automatic?

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

WTF happened to the green Zune 4/8?

http://www.zune.net/en-us/products/zune4gb8gb/default.htm

First brown, now green? You're taking all my favorite colours away!

Oh, forgot to add, can we assume from the new products page (link below) that the Zune 30 is also on it's way out?

http://www.zune.net/en-US/products/

nook - if you have an album, it will automatically play without gaps :)

Cesar, can you comment about gapless compatibility on Zune?  Is it officially only WMA (Zune Pass, etc)?  Are my LAME VBR MP3 encodes supposed to be gapless, like they are on iPod and Winamp?  Because they are not.  Am I "doing something wrong"?

Grom - help me understand - what is it that you're trying to do? Be specific please and I'll check into it

Gapless is true gapless....

works fine with my MP3s......

no software or pre-processing BS...

yeeeeeeeeeeeee hhahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaahhhh !

well i cant install this. it fails. i also cant uninstall the zune software in hopes of starting over. even unzoone doesnt remove anything. what am i supposed to do now? i have vista ultimate x64...

If take any "tracks bleed into each other" CDs I previously ripped to MP3 using a program that uses the LAME MP3 VBR encoder, the content isn't gapless on Zune 2.5.  You hear a slight audio drop between the tracks.  Amazon MP3 music downloads are all LAME MP3 VBR encoded, too... as are other stores like eMusic.  That's a LOT of content.  These don't seem to playback gaplessly on either the desktop program, or my Zune "30" device.

If I take the same LAME MP3 VBR encoded albums, they playback gaplessly on iPod (iTunes), Winamp & any other applications that are gapless compatible.

WMA music files, however, are now perfectly gapless.  So, I'm half-way there.  I haven't yet tested AAC/M4A files.

Zune Pass Superstore RULES!  101 song playlists.  I can't wait to see what you guys do with this.

So, some people seem to have success with gapless MP3 here.  We need to figure out what is "different" for the folks that aren't having success like me.  Is it because of the encoder (LAME vs. FhG), VBR vs. CBR, or possibly how we have them tagged?

Cesar, it looks like I'll need to do some varied testing unless the Zune team already documented what they support and tested for gapless MP3.  LAME MP3 should be one of the easiest to make gapless, thanks to the padding and delay info embedded in the header.

I done a lot of complaining, but this time I'm happy. You guys got it right!!!

What about ripping music from cd at a bit rate higer than 192?

How many times do the Zune team need to hear about Unicode support before they will act on it?  

For those who are stuck at 99%, I just left the setup running for about an hour and then it was able to complete.  Looking at what it did afterwards, I suspect you can just download the latest Setup package and install over the existing one.

dude come on! this is NOT funny .. did you guys just remove marketplace for any non US user completely??

i needed it to browse podcasts .. this is just stupid!

Awesome update to the zune team. Thanks guys, keep up the great work.

Just one question: Will the Zune marketplace eventually have some sort of plugin into Windows Media Center? I would love to see some cross sharing between the two so i can surf the tv eps from my couch. Kinda like the product i love to hate the Apple TV. I dont like the product but they did get that one thing right. Would love to hear some feedback if you can! Thanks!

Awesome update to the zune team. Thanks guys, keep up the great work.

Just one question: Will the Zune marketplace eventually have some sort of plugin into Windows Media Center? I would love to see some cross sharing between the two so i can surf the tv eps from my couch. Kinda like the product i love to hate the Apple TV. I dont like the product but they did get that one thing right. Would love to hear some feedback if you can! Thanks!

So Vista has built in rating support across the OS based on the 5 star system. Can someone remind me why the Zune doesn't follow the same conventions? And can someone also tell me why ANYONE would put music on their Zune they didn't like?

Wow Zune Team.  This is fantastic.  I didn't pay any more and I get new features!  I am one happy early adopter.

Is anyone else getting the error message below when trying to update your Zune device? my software updated with no problem...

Update Unavailable:

Your device needs an update. To continue, make sure you're connected to the Internet. If you're connected and the device doesn't update, please try again later.

Bravo!! I still have the original Zune 30 and everything seemed to update without incident. I love the added features - esp the tag editing and autoplaylists and the video downloads. Not to mention the fact that I haven't had to plunk down a load of $$$ on a new device to enjoy the adds. Good job!

Love having autoplaylists back, but now I see something different that I don't necessarily like.  

I use a Zune Pass...

I used to create a "Charts"-type playlist by going to charts in marketplace, selecting rock, and then for example Indie.  I'd make a playlist by selecting all of the "top" Indie songs, right clicking, and adding to a new playlist.  When I try to do this in the new version, add to playlist isn't a choice upon right-click.  Thoughts?  Doesn't appear that I can add more than a single song to a playlist anymore.

re gapless playback of MP3s:

I've just tested with two albums: Dean Gray's "American Edit" (downloaded) and Scooter's "Stadium Experience" (self-ripped*), and these albums play gaplessly**.

* EAC used to make flac files (set NOT to include silence around tracks on the CD) and then using MediaMonkey to make 256ABR MP3s

** unless you're a perfectionist (as I am) who will notice the nanosecond of silence as the tracks change.  But for anyone who wasn't concentrating directly on the music stream, it would appear gapless.

I'll try this again....  THANK YOU!

Did I put something in that previous comment that got it moderated out?  I just listed my wish list for Zune showing the ones that had been checked off with this release and the ones that were still left to do.  Maybe it was the question on the Audible rumor that got it edited.

Starting yesterday, my Zune froze on a song, and now wants the new update. It continually errors out, and none of the suggestions from microsoft is helping...

Anyone have any suggestions?

If there is a "nanosecond of silence", Zune can't claim gapless playback... so don't say it is.  WMA is 100% gapless.  MP3, at least LAME VBR, isn't so far.  :-(

Thanks Zune team i only asked like twice if they can bring back the Find Album Info feature  when u right click a song without Album Art im pretty sure other people asked for it too and you guys put it in this new update thanks a grip IPOD SUCK lol just thought id add that little comment Good looking out. ONE

Come on Cesar, what's the official word on Asian/Unicode characters?

to: the person who wrote to me above...

You're right, but it's picking hairs.  For all intents and purposes it is gapless.  HOWEVER it could have been done in a more intelligent way by precaching the next track while the current track is ending.  This would also be a path to track mixing / fading*.  

It would be nice if there could ever be a forum for device programmers to explain themselves, receive feedback directly, or admit culpability when they fail to think ahead or release some clunky feature.  There are STILL features broken in the menu system of the Zune.  Wireless transfers STILL don't work more than half the time.  iTunes and the iPod (I don't use them) had basic issues cleared up a long time ago and it doesn't take much effort to copy and improve on existing methodology.

I got my Zune mainly for the ease of navigation while driving, and I've been pleasantly surprised to hear depths to my music that I'd never heard before.  It is a lovely player, but in 2008 I'd expect a fully-formed, comprehensive and competitive product and management system, not the curious prolonged prerelease system we users seem to be evaluating for MS daily.

* I'm not expecting to see that soon, despite it being in Winamp for around 10 years (through plugins).

Jason - as you know, we're not talking about future releases, but I'll definitely pass your feedback along!

cirieno, the Zune already pre-caches part of the next track for transitions.  If it didn't, there would be more performance issues and delay.  The problem is, at least for LAME MP3 files, Zune does not seem to use the padding and delay info available in the header to correctly to play the correct number of samples, introducing a tiny audio gap between them.  WMA is 100% gapless on Zune now, and MP3 needs to be, too, whenever possible... since MP3 (and LAME) is the leading audio format.

After some testing I can comfirm, for my part at least, the update is NOT gapless with WMA lossless. So far, it plays back my music gaplessly about 80% of the time, while the rest of the time it either is a very slight snap or clip sort of gap (almost unnoticable). All my music was ripped using the Zune software or dbpoweramp. I have yet to try a few tricks that I have heard others doing (like removing the files onboard the Zune and then re-syncing) to get it working better, will report back soon gaplessphiles!

Aaron, are you using the WMA Lossless files directly on the Zune, or letting the Zune software convert it to something smaller at sync?  (See settings... conversion settings.  The default is probably to convert.)  Does the gap also exist on desktop Zune or just the device?  I haven't yet tested WMA Lossless for gapless.

Cesar, tell everyone that this update was well worth it.  I love what you guys did to the software.  The Tag editing is great, and the movie sorting.  That was my biggest pet pieve.  I like the new social features HOWEVER,

is there any way you can add a play restriction to the songs from friends cards?  It would be nice to get 1-3 plays of the songs you get from friends cards upon sync.  If I can actually hear the song... I might buy it.  Most people do not have a zune pass, this would be benaficial.  

Why hasn't the rating system been fixed?  Can you guys at least allow users to toggle whether they want to use the wonky 2-star system, or a normal 5-star system.  Any true music listener [i.e. your target market], or even most general people that own a MP3 player have more variability in their musical opinions than "I love it" or "I hate it".  That focus group you claimed to have asked must of consisted of senior citizens and lazy employees.

Can I keep podcasts from playing continuously?

Ok, I know I am a bit of a freak, but I need some help with this.  I can't go to sleep without talk radio, a podcast, or audiobook.  I have hoped for a sleep timer (my old ipod and Zen Vision M had this) since after going to sleep with one of these playing, I either have crazy dreams or it wakes me up.

So I had been ok, I would just play a podcast and 20 minutes later the Zune would turn off after the podcast was over.  With the 2.5 update, the Zune now has added a "Play All," which is a nice addition (I used to add podcasts to the quick playlists on my Zen to play more than one in a row) and following the "Play All" is a list of all podcasts.  If I play a podcast, it plays all following podcasts after the first one is complete.

Help! What can I do besides get another MP3 player? Can I disable continuous play?  Can I revert the firmware back to 2.3 and keep the 2.5 desktop software?

Thanks - Ed

grommet,

Yeah, my conversion setting is set to off so the full WMA lossless files are onboard the Zune. Also the gaps exist on the Zune device only, they have played gaplessly on the software since I've ripped them. I tried re-ripping a few albums this afternoon using the Zune software post-update but there are still not gapless.

Ya... a sleep timer is needed.  I listen to my zune every night when I go to bed.  I have to select a short list of songs so it doesn't play all night.  I would rather select a playlist and put it on shuffle and have it turn of in 20-30 min.

I'm not getting any better luck with WMA for gapless. Plus, it seems to take longer to rip and convert and even longer to sync.

Generally, the gapless playback seems to depend on the CD or even from one cut to another on the same CD. Sometimes it's perfect, sometimes the next track comes in a fraction of a second early (which I find the most disturbing - i'm listening to DJ mixes), sometimes you hear a slight dull tick sound. I was so ecstatic about gapless... I'll be watching this post closely if you guys figure something out. Any breakthroughs yet, Aaron?

Signed,

Gaplessphile :)

Aaron, sounds like a bug.  :-(  There might be gapless bugs with WMA VBR, too.  I know I have one VBR WMA album (VBR 90) I ripped ages ago that doesn't transition nicely on the Zune device.  I get a jump or a gap.  (But plays fine on the desktop, just like your WMA Lossless.)  The WMA CBR stuff seems to be fine.  Ugh.

Please keep the discussion about gapless playback going. It's not nitpicking, it's important.

Great stuff but where are the ABC and CBS shows I hope you guys plan on adding them soon.

Still no luck with gapless, I'm thinking this is something the Zune devs will have to tweak in a future update. Quite a few people around all the various Zune forums have been reporting their own issues with gapless. Judging from how much the take user feedback into account I have no doubt that they will figure out a fix.

I remember it took the Rio Karma devs about 2 or 3 firmware updates until gapless was working reliably.

In any case, thanks very much to Ceaser and the rest of the Zune team for really listening to suggestions and your effort on improving the software and device. I look forward to further features and fixes!

WMA CBR or VBR, MP3, all the same bugs. Oh well.

Having no luck with LAME mp3 gapless, I tried converting a couple tracks to AAC and syncing them. They work better than mp3, but there's still a click at the track transition. I use Linux so WMA isn't really an option.

Interestingly, the Zune software does worse at playing AACs gapless than the device itself!

After doing a lot of reading on gapless playback I believe the problem might be with the way Zune is reading, or not reading, the LAME info in the metadata. When you load some mp3's into the Zune software it is ID'ing the artist, album, etc., so it's obviously looking at the metadata to some extent. When you change the info within the Zune sofware, however, the actual file isn't changed. My suspicion is that Zune is only looking at the tags needed to fill in the fields available in the Zune software. I wish the devs would provide some info on this so we can find out if we're fighting a losing battle.

Luigi, the delay and padding info in LAME MP3 is in the MP3 header and not the tag metadata.  It's up to the playback codec to use it to playback losslessly.

By the way, Zune *does* change tags in the files when changing the metadata.  It's not always immediate, however, since it caches change requests.

w00t!  I am looovin' the gapless playback, I have been waiting for 18 months for this!  Haven't had an issue yet with LAME encoding, but I haven't got too far yet in my list to determine yet.

grommet, you are correct. LAME does, however, also write an "Encoder Settings" tag. I guess that's what I was thinking of. As for the tag editor, I have not had one file changed, which I don't necessarily think is a bad thing.

'scuse my ignorance, but I was wondering about LAME. Does the Zune software encode MP3s with LAME encoding? By using LAME encoding, might we improve gapless?

I'm still curious about the Podcast thing outside of US.  I bought my little sister a Zune4 last year, she uses it mostly for listening to Podcasts but she lives in England.  Should I tell her not to update?

Charles, the Zune software uses a licensed MP3 codec from FhG (the father for MP3) and only supports CBR encoding.  (Likely the same as WMP 11.)

The gapless problems currently seem to be worse with VBR MP3 & LAME.  :-(

Invited you as a friend... no response...?