The approach might be different to some degree due to the fact that as the 800 lb. gorilla in the digital music space, Apple CAN "issue a manifesto" and has the leverage to attempt to affect change. Right now Microsoft does not have the same leverage with the major labels - as was evidenced by how quickly Microsoft caved in and agreed to pay Universal $1 for every Zune sold - and is not in a position to push for change.

Jobs did a pretty good job of laying out the case for elminating DRM for downloads and has nothing to lose from a move to DRM-free downloads. The reality is - has Jobs and others have pointed out - is most people have very few iTunes downloads on their iPods. That must mean that people are sticking with the iPod for reasons other than feeling "locked in" to the solution. Like they actually like the damn thing!

Apple is basically saying, hey, people are going to buy ipods anyway.  They could care less about whether itunes downloads have drm.  Apple probably will end up saving a lot of money not having to screw around with fixing drm hacks as well.  Well, considering that im all for subscription content, this will push me one step further away from the apple ecosystem.  The scary thing for Microsoft is if apple really starts shifting away resources from itunes and focusing even more on the hardware side, how will MS compete.  Apple already has a zillion lines compared to the zune's single configuration.  

p.s. - I wish the majority of the news that came out of these zune blogs was actually about the zune.  After coming to these zune blogs and getting the zune, I read/write/talk more about apple than I ever did in the past.  

I really would like not having restrictions and DRM!

In fact, one thing that is holding me back from getting a Zune is that I will lose a bunch of purchased music that I bought via iTunes.

The thing is that when I buy music, I expect it to be mine and if I want to burn it to a CD, copy it to 5 of my MP3 players or whatever, I want to do it. It is what I paid for after all!

For the Zune, the first DRM "feature" I want to go is the 3plays/3days! That would make me ecstatic.

"The difference seems to be in the approach. Rather than issue a manifesto/mandate, we (Microsoft) will continue with our label partners towards our long-standing vision: enabling seamless playback of content in whatever scenarios make sense for the consumer. "

Translation - We have no power to persuade the labels to drop DRM. Seamless playback is letting Zune owners know beforehand whether or not a song is sharable, fixing the skipping issue. What's best for consumers (As Bill Gates would agree) in the end is no DRM.

With only 3& of music purchase coming from iTunes (22 out of 1000 songs on the average iPod), what it shows is the iPod sells itself. They don’t need iTunes DRM to continue to sell iPods and for people to continue to use iTunes. I hope the Zune team have something cooking in the hardware dept that can blow the competition away.

And it would be kinda nice if we could have some of that video delivered to our Zune too...

Actually Steve J and Bill G do not agree to the degree which you imply. Apple is saying scrap DRM. Microsoft is touting the need to fix it (but keep it). In lieu of scrapping DRM altogether, Apple is saying Fairplay is the best that can be achieved and is arguing <i>not</i> to change it. Changes to Fairplay (i.e. opening it up) will in fact dilute it's value and make it worse. Again to contrast, Microsoft is saying the status quo is broken and needs to be fixed. Quite different positions, actually.

Oh, and excuse the typos in the above post. I'm drunk.

Cesar,

Can you please clearly outline why you think DRM is critical to the Zune strategy?  I'd like to understand why you wouldn't a world devoid of DRM so music bought on the Zune store worked with the iPod and vice versa.

Muji - I *don't* think DRM is critical to the Zune strategy. . .

"Rather than issue a manifesto..."

As if anyone would pay attention to what your thoughts are on the matter.  You guys don't have a mandate to run with in the first place.

The Product Manager of the Zune team was quoted in a News.com article saying Jobs comments were "irresponsible".  Would you please explain what specifically the Zune team finds "irresponsible" about Jobs's comments?

Jobs says to get rid of DRM, as if he could, fanboys download in their jeans. Fast forward a year from now, and DRM will still be here and the fanboys will look like total idiots.

So what exactly is the power that Apple has over anyone to do any of this? In your zeal to sing the praises of Jobs, were you smart enough to even think about that?

Apple losers are so easy. Mostly arrogant fools to a man.

Cesar

If DRM is *not* a critical part of the Zune strategy, Gates think DRM needs to be changed/abolish etc., and most consumers could care less about it (i.e. 3/3 rule, unshareable Marketplace songs)- then at what point do MS stand and fight for the consumers? MS would gain lot's of respect if they took a stand as the current *underdogs* against DRM. Heck I am sure MS is not breaking any records with downloads from Marketplace. Screw the labels!

But your above statement just solidifies to me that the Record companies control your customers Zune experience as much as you (MS) do.

I love the feeling of DRM squirting on me!

@Iced_Eagle

You can burn on a CD all the music you bought from iTunes Store, and copy it to other MP3 Players. Apple gave you that right.

I understand users frustrations with DRM. I have a vision. Start from scratch. Instead, we will manage rights -- digitally! And make for a better triumvirate of OS, Content Partner, and User -- working in harmony and bliss!

Welcome to the Social!

well probably a move to MP3 would destroy the streaming/subscription companies.

As a consumer I would prefer MP3's but no doubt once we go to open MP3 sales the recording industry will die..casual piracy will be the assasin.

It's been a good run :)

"will continue with our label partners towards our long-standing vision: enabling seamless playback of content in whatever scenarios make sense for the consumer."

Seamless playback? You mean the way you can only play a song which is transfered for a few days.

You mean that sort of seamless?

"I wish the majority of the news that came out of these zune blogs was actually about the zune"

There's a reason why there's so much mention of the iPod and now Steve Jobs. That's because the

Zune came in to a market dominated by the iPod. The Zune team basically spent so much time looking over their shoulders and at what the iPod is doing, while coming up with the Zune, that it's in the team's nature to do this.

Steve Jobs and Gates have the same views? Are you kidding me? You mean how weak Microsoft was

to pay BMG $1 for every Zune sold? You paid up to BMG's extortion demands. If someone doesn't

touch a single BMG song, they still pay? Steve Jobs is a visionary that changed the music industry. Whereas Gates folded to the demands of BMG.

"Seamless playback? You mean the way you can only play a song which is transfered for a few days."

I have yet to see a valid solution from anyone on how to fix that.  And getting rid of the restriction isn't a solution, it's a violation of copyright law.  So what do they do? Just not let you share at all?

How do I find out about the Zune playlist and Vista Media Center incompatibility.  I know there's a workaround.  Cesar, anyone?

AO Said:

"I have yet to see a valid solution from anyone on how to fix that.  And getting rid of the restriction isn't a solution; it's a violation of copyright law.  So what do they do? Just not let you share at all?"

MusicGremlin, which was First out the gate with true wifi sharing, doesn’t seem to have that same problem. Granted you have to be a subscriber first before you can share but they're no such tight restrictions (i.e. 3/3 rule, unshareable Marketplace songs). The Zune is currently married to DRM in the way the wifi were implemented. Instead of *squirting* songs with the stupid 3/3 rule, why not allow ulimited sharing to subcribers much the same way MusicGremlin does it.

http://www.musicgremlin.com/Device/DeviceEnd.aspx

I may be wrong, but I suspect that Jobs' primary goal is to shift the discussion away from Apple's lame excuse for refusing to license their Fairplay-DRM to other companies.

It's a game where Jobs calls for DRM-free music, knowing that the record companies will reject it. Then, Jobs can blame the music industry for their closed-iPod-only-DRM system.

The end result? iPod/iTunes business as usual, with the music industry taking the blame. Just what Apple wants...

I personally think that DRM-free mp3 store is not going to happen - it's much easier to copy an mp3 than a CD. That's just a fact.

Daveworld - see, I think a "screw the labels" approach isn't realistic. What do you think?

I think that if DRM is going to keep pirates out of the industry, and DRM doesn't slow anything down, it is fine. You are paying for renting music, and nothing more.

Cesar, I have loved your blog from day one. (Remember ZuneDose?) That was me. Anyway, I will be straightforward, I own an iPod, and have grown to hate it.

I really want a Zune, but don't know what to do with my old 5g iPod who has not been charged every since the Zune came out. I know the Zune will play videos better, the UI is a ton better IMO, and I hate iTunes and the scroll wheel. How about we do a trade? I will trade you my iPod (or a legal statement saying I will never buy anything Apple again) for any (black) Zune.

I will be sure to send you many users from http://www.gamedrift.com (my current site.)

How about it?

Steve's thoughts on 'Thoughts on Music':

http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2007/02/thoughts-on-thoughts-on-music.html

The Plays For Sure ecosystem supports multiple devices and multiple stores approach from many vendors. This model is also used by Real Network's Rhapsody service as well. If the minor incompatibilities and glitches between the various stores and devices were to be fixed this is a much richer ecosystem than the current market leader. The number of devices that support this offer a lot more choices to customers.

The number of Plays For Sure compatible devices is very large and come in various shapes, sizes, capacities and price points and are supported by a large number of device makers. These devices offer many options not found in iPod/iTunes (e.g. user replaceable batteries, FM Radio, Audio Recording, drag-and-drop synchronization.) There are many industry heavyweights that are invested here.

There are currently 8 stores that support Plays For Sure: AOL Music Now, Cinema Now, F.Y.E., Musicmatch, Napster, PassAlong, URGE, Wal-Mart Music Downloads. These stores offer subscription options (in addition to the song, album purchase options) not found in the iTunes Marketplace.

Microsoft created the Zune system because this model has failed to beat Apple's model and it recognizes Apple's runaway success. The Plays For Sure model has not been abandoned because it still makes a lot of money for the ecosystem. It may not have a significant share of the total Digital Music sales but remember that the pie is quite huge and the dollar sales numbers of this ecosystem are not insignificant. Do note that the 97% (or in reality other very large percentage) figure that Mr. Jobs mentions applies to the Plays For Sure owners as well and most of the songs that have been ripped to CDs by these are in the WMA format and these are playable on all of the Plays for Sure devices, Zune devices and Mobile Pocket and Handheld Windows devices (not insignificant!).

The number of users of Rhapsody, eMusic, Zune and other services continues to grow (at various rates.) There are also other download and distribution services not mentioned here (e.g. NetFlix, BlockBuster and Amazon, local libraries) and they offer various choices to a consumer.

Before we support Mr. Jobs and get rid of DRM we should remember lessons from the not so distant past. We surely remember the rampant piracy days of the old Napster. We need to strike a balance between the rights of the creators/owners/distributors (or they will stop doing the creation) and the buyers/consumers/users of the content (they pay for it) and so abolishing DRM is not the answer ... uncontrolled sharing is stealing after all ... so we need to continue innovating ...

Ultimately, the marketplace will decide the fate of the various models, but, choice is good ... customers and their needs come in all shapes and sizes!

Disclosure:

We (me and my family) personally own multiple digital music devices including multiple iPods, multiple Plays For Sure devices, Pocket PCs and Microsoft Zune devices. We have and continue to use multiple Digital download stores including iTunes, Zune Marketplace, URGE, MusicMatch, CinemaNow, Rhapsody, and eMusic. We like choices and see advantages and disadvantages in all these systems. DRM is a real pain for a legitimate user. A big majority of the music we own and listen to is from our personal CD collection and we continue to buy new CDs after sampling the music using the subscription services (30 seconds samples are not good enough). We do buy individual songs from stores. We don't work for any of the companies involved in sale and manufacture of devices mentioned here.

"Rather than issue a manifesto/mandate, we (Microsoft) will continue with our label partners towards our long-standing vision: enabling seamless playback of content in whatever scenarios make sense for the consumer"

How is it seamless when your Zune player does not play your own PlaysForSure DRM, you can't use video recorded using your own Media Center OS, you can't use video purchase on XBox live and you can't even use the limited sharing features with songs you buy from Zune Marketplace?  

KDT - well, we're not at "seamless playback" . . . yet -working on it :)

Here's my $0.02....

1) Leave DRM off of purchased music! If I purchased a song, let it be clean of all the DRM-junk

2) Leave DRM for subscription purposes, but keep it open to several devices. This is one where I believe that Zune should have been Play-for-sure complaint so that I can use one subscription for ANY device that I want

3) Take the 3 days/3 plays (aka DRM wrapper) off of Zune sharing. It would work better if you guys a) kept non-drm'ed music "clean" after sharing b) allow people to share their drm'ed (subscription) music for unlimited enjoyment on the shared device, with the restriction that people can't move the drm'ed songs off of the device.

Ex1: "Here's a cool podcast! You can listen to it forever!"

Ex2: "Here's a subscription song from Sn00p D0g, you can listen to it on your Zune forever, but you can't transfer it from the zune"

Zune transfer shouldn't have the 3x3 restriction for rental subscribers.

Bootcamp style plugin for playsforsure stores. (no support - do it at your own risk)

Ability to order physical disk (copy) with marketplace purchases at a slightly extra cost. No DRM for people who don't want DRM.

Does the marketplace allow re-download of purchased music? If not - it should be available.

I don't know why I typed all these :)

met - zmp allows a purchased song to be played on 5 pcs (and an unlimited number of devices).

get over it DRM is here to stay, and frankly it makes sense. if you dont want DRM, buy a CD. Jobs is just a populist.

TomT said:

I may be wrong, but I suspect that Jobs' primary goal is to shift the discussion away from Apple's lame excuse for refusing to license their Fairplay-DRM to other companies.

You got it, you're wrong.

Steve Jobs is a CEO, dedicated to maximizing Apple's profits - period.

Steve Jobs refuses to license FairPlay-DRM to other companies, because Apple gains a competitive advantage from that policy.

Steve Jobs talks about DRM-free music, knowing that the recording industry will reject his proposal.

Steve Jobs talks about DRM-free music, to distract attention away from the fact that the company continues to refuse to license  FairPlay-DRM to other companies.

Apple's refusal to license FairPlay-DRM is getting a lot of attention in Europe. Steve Jobs desperately wants to change the subject, so that iPod/iTunes can continue to operate in a closed-propietary manner.

If opening up DRM to third parties is such a good system, why has Microsoft ditched Plays-for-sure in favour of a closed system for Zune?

Moe, an important distinction to make - *Microsoft* hasn't ditched plays for sure: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/11/

*Microsoft* is still supporting partners w/ Windows Media 11.

And you mis-spelled *favour* ;). I keed, I keed!

Last time I checked the Zune was not a Plays-for-Sure device. I didn't say Microsoft ditched Plays-for-Sure, I said they abandoned that system for Zune. Why?

Zune isn't a plays for sure device, you are right. But that still doesn't mean Microsoft ditched plays for sure. zune isn't, because we wanted to make an end-to-end, managed experience. see the distinction there?

And are you *the* Moe Tucker from the VU?

How many Microsoft are there? Microsoft abandoned PFS in favor of a closed system (i.e. iPod/iTunes). Ballmer is on record saying it was not working with PFS because as he puts it, "the whole was not bigger than the sum of the parts."

PlaysForSure is in the hands of the third parties to carry now. Am I wrong?

Hopefully this will end the hair splitting:

Yes, Microsoft still offers Plays for Sure to hardware/software vendors that want it. It just happens that Microsoft as hardware vendor (Zune) / software vendor (Zune Marketplace) didn't want it. In their flagship product, no less.

That's hardly a ringing endorsement.

you love zune. you love this blog. admit it. ;)

and by the way, VISTA is Microsoft's flagship product.

davew - different groups w/ in Microsoft. It's a big company with 60k+ employees, so we can't all be doing the same thing :)

And Vista is carrying the p4s torch. it's not a zune thing anymore

The power of Steve vs the power of DRM:

http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2007/02/i-faith-healed-guy-last-night.html

Steve Jobs can say what he likes about DRM because it won't make a difference.  Which is why he said it, it's another 'Apple are a force for good and MS are EVIIIIIIL!' speech and frankly, it's getting pathetic watching the fanboys rally behind Jobs' blinding flashes of the obvious.  Everyone, including Steve 'I can still hang with the cool kids honest!' Jobs, knows that DRM is here to stay until the music industry finds a new way of bending us over and takling us to brown town.  And when a new way comes over the hill, Steve Jobs will be the first person to make a device with it built in.  Cos guess what?  Steve-o was doin party favours for the Music Industry waaaaaaaay before Microsoft joined in.  Fact is, no one is going to have the back bone required to stand up to the Media Giants and they probably don't even want to - this way they get a piece of the artistic pie too.

This is just more typical Jobs, writing an open letter to support something that everyone wants but knows will never happen.  All this despite the fact that he is indirectly one of it's main proponents.

Let's put this in perspective before we go dumping on Steve-o. Back in 2001 Apple managed to negotiate what was then expansive usage rights from the record companys (5 computer, unlimited iPods, burning rights, etc.). This wasn't done because it was easy or because it was what the record industry wanted. It was consumer friendly and the best deal that could be done at the time.

Flash forward to 2006 and you have Universal demanding 50¢ for each Zune sold and Microsoft countering with 'how about we make that an even buck?'.

Deeds, not words, baby.

Yeah, adding DRM to all "Squirted" tracks is just AWESOME!! Great work! You are JUST LIKE Steve Jobs. Only in shit colored BROWN!