Yes i completely agree that competition is good in all areas, not just in the mp3 player market. I don't think there would be anything worse than Apple having 100% control over consumer electronics because just imagine been fed with steve jobs' pretentious dribble 24/7! God that man could literally put an apple logo(or the letter "i" in front of its name) onto a piece of crap and people would still rush to the stores to buy one!

This article is good but it misses one area.  The article assumes that the innovation will make the ipod better.  I'm not sure thats true.  Apple has seemed to begrudgingly add features such as video and FM radio.  All the while Steve has said that he doesn't think users want those features.  I think at the end of the day Apple is able to do some cool things and they are certainly innovators but I don't think they are tuned into what the public wants.  

Apple should engage their users in a dialog.  There is a reason you don't see any Apple employee blogs and that is because Apple employees don't care what users think.  That is how I feel.  

btw cesar are all microsoft employees attending a party tonight for vista launch?

live webcast of vista launch here from times square:

http://www.microsoft.com/events/executives/billgates.mspx

I'm a Zune fanboy but dude, Zune team has enough to worry about.  I just want to discuss how Zune should evolve to take our media experience to the next level.

If XBox is only going to sell 1.2 million units before end-of fiscal year I think that certainly indicates problems with Zune meeting its target.  Zune needs some new some new juice (software)...and soon.

Cesar, Erica Sadun (author of the article you linked to) here. Check your e-mail over the next day or so. I've asked my editor over at O'Reilly to send you a copy of my Zune book.

I noticed bunch of comments on that article related to FM radio. Why do so many people seem to angry about the FM radio? They all argue that the iPod exists because FM radio sucks.

Do these people ever go to the gym? I've always wanted to flip on an FM radio to listen to the TV's located in the cardio room, but I've always just had my iPod with me. With Zune, I'll have the option of either listening to my library or that episode of "24."

i noticed that the screen shots are all shown as landscape versus portrait, is that a new feature in one of the upcoming firmware updates? it would be awesome to have the option of landscape as default, just a little something more different. take it under advisement maybe?

Erica gets it right. Nice article.

Have you used the Zune video out?  That's "landscape" since, well, normal non-HD screens are 4:3.

I come to these zune blogger sites pretty often, and I have to admit that the voices  of the zune team (zunester, insider) are starting to frustrate me a little.  Instead of focusing on the issues at hand(i.e. skipping), we continue to hear about the one device that we chose NOT to buy.  In fact, my wife told me today that her Zune is skipping more than ever.  My skipping has been toned down as of late, but every now and then it rears its ugly head.  The last thing I want to hear about right now is how this thing "competes" with the iPod.  Unless of course, I'm trading in both of the zunes for whatever Apple rolls out next winter.  

About the article, it's a pretty good read.  But, at this point, I don't think anyone really considers the Zune competition for the iPod.  There's too many things to get right first, including fully functioning players that can play music without a hitch.  Next of course would be a more complete product line.  The powers that be at Microsoft have this odd belief that just because they launched a few months ago, they can't release anything new, including new devices or features for the existing device.  Right now, we have a pretty simplified, barebones device with major issues and some cool exclusive features (i.e. wifi).  Apple has a full-featured device with a reputation for quality and innovative design that also has some exclusive features(i.e. clickwheel).  Competition...not yet at least.

p.s. Over 2 months into this thing and we still can't listen to the music we pay for without skipping...I'm not sure this is what J Allard had in mind.

They're giving away Zunes.

http://crunchgear.com/2007/01/29/zune-goes-discount-causes-289-million-loss-for-microsoft/

No one's buying them. Worry about that.

Look I am a Zune fanboy, but we need to be focused on taking media experience to the next level with Zune.  Let start with some upgrades.

How are sales?  With XBox projections dropping significantly, its even more important to add value to Zune with new features.

Where do they get that number?  How did they figure Microsoft lost $289 million?  After marketing costs?  Unlike Xbox & Xbox 360, Zune is sold at a profit by Microsoft.  Day one.  They don't "make money on software" like game systems.

SportsUnit, I have to believe that the Zune team is working like crazy to address the skipping issue. These other announcements and positive news stories don't take away from that.

I've tried to replicate the skip issue but have not been able to. I've heard it can occur when the Zune is loaded with a lot of Zune Pass downloads. Is that what you've found?

Just wondering, have you tried experimenting with that - i.e. decreasing the volume of Zune Pass content and seeing if that alleviates it.

Not a fix, just trying to ease your frustration while the Zune team addresses the root cause.

- Harvey

The 289 Million is not for Zune itself but the whole entertainment division including xbox lost it.  as i understand.

microsoft why not have meizu work on the next zune - they made a really nice iphone knock off running windows!  they are nice people too, i used to import the m6

I understand this is Cesars blog and all that, but I'd like to hear less about the ipod on this website.  I chose the Zune as my music device, strictly for Zune Pass. I'd rather hear more about when we'll get the Beatles or when Marketplace will get rid of the "More" genre and replace it with a more reasonable set. (Hello, industrial? 50's rock and roll?, Big Band?)

Maybe talk about your 'day job' of marketing the zune, the challenges, successes, and so on.

Ray said, regarding S. Jobs:

"God that man could literally put an apple logo(or the letter "i" in front of its name) onto a piece of crap and people would still rush to the stores to buy one!"

Hmmm... sounds like Vista. Microsoft can tack the Windows name onto a turd and businesses and consumers will buy it...

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37291

I've tried everything Harvey, including the infamous backlight trick, which seemed like it was helping for a while.  

Things are just getting to a point where even if they fixed this thing today, I'd still be left with a little resentment that I paid over $500 for two of these devices and had this problem for this long.  I've had too many mp3 players to count and I've never experienced anything like this. Consistent, daily skipping on two seperate units is unheard of for these mass market music devices.  No one will tolerate that.  I'm surprised no one has crated a zuneskipping.com protest site or something.  Obviously, that would be way too much trouble.  I think people would rather just trade their players in or put them on ebay, which I am leaning toward at this point.  I hate WMP enough that I won't switch to the gigabeat...which leaves me with only one serious alternative: ditch subscription music altogether and go apple when the new iphone inspired touchscreen ipods come out.  I might as well join the club.  

Starting today, I'm going to start calling customer service and asking for refunds on my zune pass.  As long as my zune pass music is skipping, why should Microsoft get my money?  

Cesar: Gapless playback!

heh-heh

@ Ron

I love the radio. I used it (and will continue to next year) at the Patriots home games to listen to the commentary. I will use it when Baseball season starts when I go to Fewnway too. On top of that, radio is still the primary place for people to hear new music.

Radio Gooood.

I agree. Apple has done a lot right and so has Zune.

I don't know if Zune (in its current state) is going to be able to make any sort of a dent in Apple's market share. What it can do is create a foundation of users that will help to sing its praised through word of mouth.

I think that things will heat up once the next generation of Zune arrives. It SHOULD be more at par with the iPod and possibly with the iPhone- making for a more competitive setting.

Cesar,

Can you comment on this: http://www.smh.com.au/news/biztech/vistas-music-pitch-why-buy-when-you-can-rent/2007/01/30/1169919321986.html

Is Microsoft confused on it's music strategy. Why are they promoting yet another music service that looks like it will be incompatible with Zune (this uses WMP11 which doesn't work with Zune).

It's getting confusing for your customers: get a "plays-for-sure" device, now buy your music from Urge, no - just kidding - it doesn't "play-for-sure" so get a Zune, no, wait, buy a subscription from Sanity using WMP11.

What's up with that?

Speaking of the competition it looks like Seagate will give a new generation of media enabled phones unlimited storage.

Check it out...

http://scobleizer.com/2007/01/30/welcome-to-seagates-dave-wireless-portable-storage/

Dan H, isn't it obvious?  PlaysForSure is still alive.  WMP 11 shipped with Vista: the first "OS" to ship with WMP 11 out of the box.  MTV URGE (US) runs on WMP 11 and is PlaysForSure WM-DRM. Sanity will be similar, for Australia.

Anyway, as the article mentioned, Zune isn't even an option for Australia, yet...

To: Dan H,

No, it is not obvious how we are supposed to buy into two diametrically opposed music strategies at the same time.

Tim, Stevie Jobs said it best back in '97: "we believe in choice." you can pick either zune or WMP11.

I think for the average consumer - not us tech saavy people - it is NOT obvious, it will be very confusing, and it will be a key reason that Microsoft will have difficulty gaining traction in the digital music space.

Look, I  think competition is good for all of us, but I happen to believe that Apple understands one thing that Microsoft does not - you gotta keep it simple and easy to use or the masses will never adopt your products.

That's why Zune exists... for the folks that want a single "easy" controlled solution.

But not everyone wants that.  I don't want to see Microsoft the only supplier of media products and services for PCs.  Creative Labs, Sandisk, iRiver, etc. makes some cool hardware and I WANT CHOICE.  MTV URGE is just as good as Zune Marketplace, for example.  The biggest risk is for the content stores, which are hard to keep profitable without profit from hardware sales.  (With the continued consolidation, it will probably get better... less stores to split the buyers.)

to: tim (by the way, are you really going to use a different Name for every post?).

Ballmer said this: "We could be consistent with what is out there, which hasn't succeeded. Or, we can try a new approach, which we think has … merit and can succeed."

So Microsoft is saying you can choose between a meritless unsuccessful system or one that may possibly have merit and may succeed?

Dan, getting back to your question, I think "to: Dan H" pretty much got it right. WMP is component of the Vista "experiences" like videos photos. WMP11 is one of the players that you can use on the Windows Platform, and there are a number of services you can plug into wmp11.

Then there's also Zune, an end to end solution in addition to the core strategy. We think we can offer folks some new innovations to their portable entertainment/music. It's a new approach, and one the company is getting behind.

Thanks, Cesar. Unfortunately, I think for the average consumer this just confuses the situation and will work your disadvantage. Most consumers will assume that when they download music from a Microsoft piece of software - i.e. WMP11 - that it will work on a Microsoft device like the Zune, which it won't.

yeah i no this has nothing to do with this article but it is a recent one so people might actualy read it so does anyone no how to get podcasts or something of that sort on a zune.

Just add the Podcasts downloaded in MP3, AAC or WMA to a directory you set the Zune software to watch.  There are plenty of Podcast apps.  There is even one targeted for Zune: http://www.feedyourzune.com

Microsoft will add built-in support later...

Brendan - no worries. Zune doesn't have a podcast client built into the software (something that IMHO iTunes has done very well). But there are third party clients you can get to subscribe to podcasts. All the podcasts I get are manual, though - I just download the songs from the site the old fashioned way. I know, I'm like 3 years behind ;)

All Microsoft had to do was to have stringent conditions set for a PlaysForSure badge.

Apple's end to end solution has multiple players (iPod, nano and a shuffle) with multiple content (videos, music, podcasts etc) tied thru iTunes.

My iRiver H10 experience would explain the problems. I called up iRiver because the song ratings wouldn't sync from the player to WMP. They claimed it was not their "area" and told me to call Microsoft as they were the ones supporting WMP. Ofcourse Microsoft claimed that it was iRiver's responsibility to get it right and it was a firmware issue.

I am sorry to be such a pest you guys.  

Just kidding I really do like the Zune and have the brown one myself.  Just givin ole Bill a hard time!

What the Zune team can learn from the iPod (or better yet Apple).

February 23, 2005 - Apple took the best selling iPod off the shelf (mini) and replaced it with a yet to be proven DAP at the time (Nano)

January 9th 2007 - Apple demonstrated the iPhone UI and what everyone now expects to be the future iPod UI. Everyone expected them to incorporate the famous scroll-wheel to any future iPods & iPhones but looks like they are making another bold move with the multi-touch UI.

Two example of a company being bold and innovative. Not following but leading.

In contrast: We are still waiting for MS to add podcast to WMP11+URGE (and Now Marketplace). I know many people that use iTunes to get their podcasts, though they don't have iPods. I mean how hard can it be to incorporate an RSS feed?

Constructive criticism - Competition is always good for us consumers

"I am sorry to be such a pest you guys.  

Just kidding I really do like the Zune and have the brown one myself.  Just givin ole Bill a hard time!"

This comment was certainly NOT from me.

I'm not very tech savvy and my musical tastes run toward classical, ambient and jazz.  Why should I purchase a Zune rather than an iPod?

Scott, as it stands the iPod has more features and Zune has less. If you just listen to music and are not interested in exploring music (through the subscription service that Zune offers) then iPod should be your choice.

But if you get excited about new tech and want to be different from the iPod crowd - get the Zune.

There will be no firmware (featurewise) upgrades to the current iPod. So what you will have will be the current set of features. The Zune team promised to support this gen for a while with more features (though they are yet to deliver).

"There will be no firmware (featurewise) upgrades to the current iPod. So what you will have will be the current set of features. "

That's complete nonsense. Games and gapless playback were already added to this generation of iPod.

Just because the Zune people claim that they will someday, somehow deliver some new feature via firmware does not equal Apple doesn't update iPod firmware with new features. Quite the contrary.

Tim - In addition to the two features you just mentioned, Apple also added a new search feature and they enhanced the scrolling feature with a display overlay to show where you are in the list when scrolling long lists. So all four of these new features came to me for free via firmward updates.

I think if Cesar is being a fair moderator, he should delete posts like MET's that are clearly incorrect, and appear to be so intentionally simply in an attempt to cast Zune in a better light than a competitor.

To Scott - if you are planning on buying music from either iTunes Store or Zune Marketplace, you should get someone's perspective on how extensive the classical, ambient and jazz selections are in the respective stores and use that to help make your decision. If you plan to simply rip from purchased CD's both Zune & iPod make the grade. And I don't think you need to be "tech saavy" to use either device.

iPod Video G5 got an nice upgrade because a G6 product was not released.  Apple, intelligently, made a slightly refreshed version (a "G5.5" release)... so the G5 got a free ride with new features.  The nano G1, regretably, wasn't so lucky.

And poor retired models, like the mini, still have the skipping VBR MP3 bug with no fix in sight...  :-(